"Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

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"Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by RuleroftheWorld » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:14 am

This was bought up in a thread yesterday, and its a very valid point.

Currently, the forum rules state that, in a feedback thread, you are not to give an opinion on authenticity UNLESS the threadstarter asks for opinions.

Whilst I dont agree with this rule, this is not the point of my post.

When opinions are asked, stating "its secretarial/autopen" is allowed, correct?

BUT in these threads, other members also post "Its authentic/omg its 100% real" etc, even when the autograph is blatantly autopen/preprint, and can be proven 110%.

My point is, why are we not allowed to post the truth ("thats an autopen" [followed by proof]), yet people are freely allowed to post blatantly false information ("thats 100% real!" [in reference to an autopen, no reason/proof provided])

I dont understand why we can have rules that contradict each other. If members are not allowed to post the truth about an autograph being autopen etc, then members should also not be able to post saying an autopen is real (for example).

It doesnt work both ways, and the current rules set up seems to encourage people to believe fakes are real, rather than than encouraging the truth.

Thoughts?

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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by whosurdaddy » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:47 am

I absolutely agree. Any serious autograph collector you would think would want to know what they received is authentic or not and there is a double standard regarding voicing opinions on authenticity.Nothing is more ridiculous than seeing a success posted claiming it's authentic when indeed it is not. Is this an Autograph Collectors site or a kiddie fan club? I wonder....

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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by guilder1st » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:44 am

Claims either way should be backed up with proof. Personally I have enough experience in the field that I can figure out if my autograph is authentic or not, so unless I ask for opinions I wouldn't want them offered to me. But if someone asks for an opinion in regards to authenticity, the general rule should be to provide proof. Show some photo's of IP or AP autographs to back up your claim. :D

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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by Fudgemonkey » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:56 am

I concur...I have an idea, but I'm not sure how good it is:

With each feedback posted, a poll is automatically added. The poll just asks if it is real or not. This way, we wouldn't be violating this rule, but we could just express what we think.
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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by whosurdaddy » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:43 am

Topic starter doesn't ask for an opinion however someone posts in the topic asking if it's authentic or not.
HMMMMMMM big dilemma
Why not just censor authentic, preprint, autopen,secretarial, stamped etc. :lol: :roll:

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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by The_Champion » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:57 pm

I don't think you should have to "sugarcoat" your responses. People should stop being so sensitive. They should also stop being so naive towards their autographs. It's ridiculous how people absolutely believe that they got an authentic from an A lister, no matter how much evidence you show them. Most of the time it is the people who claim the autograph is authentic are the ones who start the arguments. They add lots of !!!!! and ????? and tell people they have no idea what they're talking about. If anything, the optimists should be censored, and the realists post the truth!

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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by Nammzi » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:05 pm

Andy, I agree with you on this one, it isn't fair that the truth is contradicted by a rule that causes members to be argumentative with each other and create discussions in the feedback forum.

However, I don't see how it can be stopped unless we say that after a feedback has been posted, it is automatically locked so that only admin can reply, and that sort of defeats the purpose of the forum. People have different opinions on things, and while one person can be 100% sure it is fake, the next person will be 100% sure that it is authentic.

Could we have a forum just made to discuss the authenticity of autographs, but that could easily turn into a forum of arguments.

We could maybe make it so that only autograph experts can reply to topic in feedback? Because their information is more likely to be correct than the average member.
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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by Fudgemonkey » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:13 pm

The_Champion wrote:I don't think you should have to "sugarcoat" your responses. People should stop being so sensitive. They should also stop being so naive towards their autographs. It's ridiculous how people absolutely believe that they got an authentic from an A lister, no matter how much evidence you show them. Most of the time it is the people who claim the autograph is authentic are the ones who start the arguments. They add lots of !!!!! and ????? and tell people they have no idea what they're talking about. If anything, the optimists should be censored, and the realists post the truth!


THANK YOU! It seems like no one here thinks that way. That is exactly what I was thinking. But it doesn't seem like we can do anything about it.

At least we can bring it up in JM/Moderator Forums (even though I'm not a moderator :razz: )
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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by jasonw » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:58 pm

You are only allowed to say that the autograph is 'real' and 'great success', 'well done'...
The problem is, especially with newbies, if the only thing they hear is 'its real'... they will really think it's real, when it's not!

I think the poll it put up speaks for itself:
viewtopic.php?f=114&t=74925
Therefor, from now on, I'm going to show a comparison on the 'real' autograph, and an IP success. Hope you guys would help, so our fellow members would not get mislead to beliving his autograph is real when it isn't!

This is an example on what I'm going to do:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72471&p=311297&hilit=#p311297


Jason.
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Re: "Its not authentic" vs "Its authentic"

Post by jasonw » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:04 am

By the way this is the original source andy's talking about:
Andy316 wrote:
DAY TRIPPER wrote:
and no offence andy316, but ive read a lot of your posts and your always one of the first to say someones autograph is fake. you seem to just get your info from other people.

im not startin a fight, so lets not ruin this persons success by locking this page.


If you'd read my posts you'd realise how wrong that actually is, but I suggest you keep insults to yourself, especially as you dont want this thread locked.

DAY TRIPPER wrote:
no one should give a dam about weather there real or not, NONE OF US are there when she signs.


I'm an autograph collector, so of course I should "give a dam" about whether they're real or not. Like most collectors, I only want to collect authentics, not secretarials, not preprints, not autopens. So to say no one should care if theyre real or not is ludicrous. If you dont care if its real or not you may as well just print one off of google.

autos.jasonw wrote:Hi,
Please visit my thread : viewtopic.php?f=114&t=74483&hilit=
It is a fact that the experts on this site belive them to be fake.

aibbone wrote:Wow! Of course, the signature is authentic!!!
I love the pikk!!! Wonderful success! Congrats!! :mrgreen:


Becareful, please do not mislead fellow members.

One thing I don't get, why is it not ok to tell someone there autograph is not geuine but ok to say its geuine and that it's a 'great success'? All we are doing is blinding people from the truth, when they are only allowed to hear one side of the story!

Jason.



Thats a very good point, and unfortunately I dont know the answer :neutral:


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